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 Post subject: Re: open challenge to *comix duel* with Native Youth Movement
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:37 pm 
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High Chieftan

Joined: Tue May 26, 2009 9:15 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Studio City, CA
Dear Dave,

walkxtall wrote:
everybody on their toes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

roshell is back in town :)


I'm happy she is! :D She is straightforward and doesn't mince words.

Walk In Balance,
Deer


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 Post subject: Re: open challenge to *comix duel* with Native Youth Movement
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:21 am 
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Ranked Warrior
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Posts: 272
Location: San Antonio, TX
Theresa13 wrote:
Dear Dave,

walkxtall wrote:
everybody on their toes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

roshell is back in town :)


I'm happy she is! :D She is straightforward and doesn't mince words.

Walk In Balance,
Deer


As another token white dude, I realise she might not even appreciate my appreciation, but Lordy that seemed like one great nail-right-on-the-head post to me (in a good way I mean). The hey-I-understand-your-suffering thing always makes me a little uneasy regardless of where it comes from or to whom it is directed.

I'll shut up now. :D

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"For as long as the world shall endure, the honour and the glory of Mexico-Tenochtitlan must never be forgotten."
- Chimalpahin Quautlehuanitzin


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 Post subject: Re: open challenge to *comix duel* with Native Youth Movement
 Post Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Great Eldar Shaman
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:48 am
Posts: 3413
Nation: xolatl
from what i have read both war arrow and easy target are reasonable people.

they don't seem to be haters or pushing their own agenda's.

if we believe in reasonable free speech for ourselves, we should extend the same possibility for those that come here to visit.

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 Post subject: Re: Roshell!
 Post Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:05 pm 
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Warrior
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Location: midwest-east-etcetera!
Nation: fra-eNg-scO-rishMUTT
My response below....;}

Roshell wrote:
easy target wrote:
Roshell wrote:
...AND indigenous people in the media are almost invisible while the white majority is over-represented.


I would like to posit that while it may *appear* that the media over-represents we white folks, this is mist or fog. Because look at which values get represented. They are not "white" (unless you define 'white' to actually mean the colonial mentality), at least in how i imagine the definition--based on color of skin.

Of course, the media is owned and run by those who have built up and maintained the colonial mentality, so of course they are going to try to keep their severely alienated values intact, over others. They are not in the business for the fun of it.

To seek acceptance within this paradigm, groups must become colonial themselves. And, yes, there is a movement within the indigenous communities of Anowara, led and fed by whatever government you're in (i.e. the b.i.a. in the u.s.a.), to assimilate, and thus gain increased access. The question then becomes, at what cost? And, what is it you're actually getting by watering down your consciousness in order to appear to be part of the mainline?

Rights-oriented groups, such as gays, have gone the assimilation route because they realized such a path would lead them out of being active targets by society. They paid a price (with many sacrificed), but in the bigger picture, they made a "necessary" step, i suppose, in the reality that they found themselves stuck in. And with that step, they have been able to build a kind of foundation of stability, where none existed before.

As far as indigenous nations are concerned, i agree with the various wisdom-keepers of the various nations whom have been speaking up about how indigenous folks today are being "tractor beamed" (heh) into a status much like every other minority in the colonial cult-ure. To a place of subordinance to the colonial mentality (like every other racial minority group, at least formally).

Maybe that is an acceptable position for many of you. The only thing i will add is an echo of these indigenous wisdom keepers:

Think thing things through!



}I always enjoy dialoguing with nons and even white Ndns. Especially ones who feel they know the situation when they haven't grown up with, lived among,or even near Ndns, and claiming to have the cure alls for the ills or 'challenges' of Ndn society.
----
Ah, you are making some curious blanket assumptions to begin with... And, yes, I imagine why; after all, many white people are quite arrogantly ignorant and quite authoritarian about such. You get bombarded enough, and it's easy to assume that *every* challenge is just as ignorant.

I get the same thing all the time from my fellow white folks, say on the topic of questioning whatever has been planted, in a populist way, into people's heads (i.e. beliefs about addiction and mental illness, etc. etc.).


}Maybe I should've waited 3 months for my response which will take 30 mins max..
--
Yeah, maybe you shouldn't have. After all, I didn't even see your post until today!


}For starters, what do you nons know of genocide & oppression of the original peoples, my fren?
--
Ah, if you only knew; but why should i speak deeply to one who is so quick to assume that i speak my truths and insights from a vacuum of ignorance? (Ah, perhaps i'll give you "the benefit of the doubt" and step tentatively into your demands that i submit (?) to your hierarchical authority (?) like a so-called "good" little "non", ay?


}Prolly next to nothing since your media and programmed educations feed you what they think you ought to know. And yet here you are, pointing to the elders and encouraging us to 'think things through.'
----
Not all of us are believers in the Wizards of Is, 'fren'. Our race is not a cure-all when reality slaps us in the face for whatever arbitrary (or collateral damage-type) rationale.


}I'm not an elder, I'm not even mid-life. I am in my mid 30s, and as an indigenous woman who experienced the Cdn MILITARY depolyed onto my Mohawk reserve when I was 17, I now know sufficient material to rebut any and all opinions to 'think things through.' These so-called experts like Tom Flanagan and even Cdn constitutional expert Brian Slattery I've no qualms about challenging their rhetoric.
----
Me, i'm in my "mid-life". i'm actually "44". And i'm decolonizing myself from my programming. That said, i'm a descendant of many indigenous nations of europe.

Okay, you're getting me to want to reveal a little more.... i'm a member of the homosensual community who has been through a lot of heaviness, and continues to experience the consequences for speaking out in ways that i originally thought i would be able to speak out. That is, i naively trusted that if my truths could be heard (along with others in the groups i have "walked with" over the years), then adjustments would be made by Society.

As for my promo to 'think things thru', i'm calling for everyone to use their intelligence systematically. Not merely upon popular politics/polytricks. Every topic can always use careful thinking-through, including the tactics picked for responding. Thinking through things, to me, also includes a crucial knowledge of her/history. And not merely the popularized one (say, in Leftist or Rightist quarters); oppressed persons need to understand "big picture" realities, such as the reality that statecraft very much wants those it oppresses to respond via the forms it uses to attack (i.e. the confines of martial response).

Btw, i look forward to your future rebuttals, younger 'fren'.


}I've AMPLE evidence of my claim of oppression of the original peoples, and I know my history, culture, language, social knowledge, oral tradition, circumstances and present day issues which make gay issues beyond pale in comparison.
---
Ah, so i've already confessed the "gay issues" thing, eh?

Well, how flippant of you...to assume that you can know everything on that "issue", and then tell me that i had better silence myself and get back into my herd of ignorant white folks and shut up. i mean, ain't that what you're up to??

On the other hand, i don't see where i'm doing this to y'all. i'm making suggestions, and sustaining my suggestions. Now, in fact, my consciousness is coming from over 15 years of front-line praxis, albeit "imperfect", as well as launches from the experiences and feelings of indigenous folks. Like John Trudell. And how about Taiaiake Alfred. Do you know anything about them?

Have you not informed yourself of their crucial insights which are coming from heavy realities? Do you KNOW that Trudell, for one, comes from a background where his entire family were killed under very suspicious circumstances?? And, yet, he holds onto the insight that "out-fighting them" is not the solution.


}For those who are willing to listen & learn instead of dishing some comic designed to blow my socks off, I might give you the trime of day & call yur bluff to post it instead of asking for email addies or IRL addresses.
------
Hmm...are you saying i should post my art(e) here? i was thinking originally that i would save this site's band-width (and such considerations) by just giving the url link. Shall i now post my art(e) here, then?

Apparently you didn't even read the initial post, where the url address (not "IRL") is already posted, so no need to "ask".


}I've frens on here whom I don't even know their real names, so nevermind someone jumping up wvying for the privilege to see your work, at whatever unknown cost. One thing you ought to know, is that a lotta Ndns I KNOW, simply don't TRUST whites.
---
No cost at all! Except perhaps to your "ego" (not that ego is always a bad thing).

Again, i can readily see why whites aren't trusted; at the same time, to blanketly judge people based on their race is to be tooled. A place which statecrafters work long hours seeking to sustain, in order to keep us all divided and conquered. Shall i offer a reading or two (from some very interesting whistleblowers) to back this assertion of mine up?


}And if you're on our side, that's great. If you've taken offence to my outspokenness and felel the need to make a sweeping generalization about all Ndns being like me, then you can go sulk in the corner.
---
Uh-huh...you sure do have a way with words.

No "offence" taken, here; oh, sure, i got a little "hot around the collar" as the saying goes! {; :roll: :mrgreen:


} I just have a problem with your kind telling us you know how we can fight back without succombing to the colonial mentality, without us knowing a dayum thing about where you've been or where you're coming from. I just don't roll out the carpet for a knight on a white horse.
---
My "kind", huh? Who's making those sweeping generalizations?

Ah, and a goOd truth, you speak there, on the face of it, about the alleged need of people knowing a "dayum" thang about where contributors to using our intelligence should be...i'm not really convinced, yet, that i should reveal all. So, here, i've revealed a little. And maybe i'll reveal more in time. Maybe.

But i am feeling your power thru this text. So i'll think about it.

Wow, a knight? Me? Damg! Excuse me while i rub off this ol' rusty steel. Gee, it ain't easy being me, having to wear all this heavy metal. he he he.

i guess you felt the power (?) of my voice speaking thru my words as well, eh? Wow, i'm touched. No, seriously. Years after i posted the link to my art(e) someone has actually taken the time to dissent with some actual substance! My hat came off to you!


}Maybe another good starting point would be to discuss all those who aren't on our side, and who unquestionably feed the corporate controlled Ndn industry, contribute to the drowning out of OUR voices, then turn around and blame the oppressed for having brought it on ourselves. I'm talking about discussing the game itself, nevermind the technological toys and soldier boys employed.
----
Yep, i agree whole-heartedly! And a lot of my other art(e) has taken on just these topics; and, i think, much deeper than Latuff or the other Leftist (or for that matter, Rightist) game-players. (Don't get me wrong, i challenge Latuff only to do art that actually demystifies things, rather than adding fire to the same old fires of stupidity).

(Oh, Latuff? She/he's a Brazillian artist who regularly illustrates superficial Leftist media)

Tho i'll go one step further than you seem to be willing, at this juncture, to do, and say that it corporate technique isn't the heart of the challenge; alienation and ill-placed naive trust in formal authority is.


}At the end of the day, you will recognize that the wisdom keepers meant those words for your brethen to think things through.
--
It's not that cut and dry anymore. We have all been under generations of compulsory programming. And while it's true that indigenous folks are usually more critical, they too are being hood-winked in myriad ways that a general Native 'pride'-oriented consciousness doesn't seem to be able to encompass. Witness imposed beliefs about so-called "mental illness" or "addiction" and uncritical acceptance (usually by the so-called more "well educated" Natives) of the concept of alcoholism.

Then compare such with actual traditional insights. Say, the truth that AIM's original ideas would have fallen on largely deaf (or deafened) ears if it weren't for large sections of people named to be "alcoholics" (really, people refusing to accept colonization fully, according to one source i can probably find again).

So i'm merely bringing up truths that i see being missed by the usual voices, including the NYM (of what i've seen of their publications, including those listed at: http://www.anti-politics.net/distro/ ).


}But rest assured, I've every confidence your comic will show us the way.
--
Careful your tongue doesn't pierce your cheek there!

Yes, yes, i know, i know; but i don't call myself "easy target" for nothing!
:mrgreen:

Some art, with words from John Trudell, Lakota, should show up below:

Image

Note that the quote by Trudell actually comes from a speech he made at the NY City 'Indian House" in 1980. Do you think he was speaking primarily to non-indi'n folks? i don't think so.

_________________
my path has included quite a few long-distance solo bicycle trips, a 26+ mile solo run, ongoing darings into and thru my fears, and other adventures in living (solo and with/amongst other human beings, etc).


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 Post subject: Re:
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Warrior
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:15 pm
Posts: 201
Location: midwest-east-etcetera!
Nation: fra-eNg-scO-rishMUTT
ollan xolatl wrote:
thanks for replying to my posting, i re read what i had written and thought it a bit on the tough side.

then i thought why would a person think that the native youth movement is prone to violence.

radicalized humour threw me for a loop, but then so much of the tv cartoon world aimed towards children is perhaps radicalized humour.

were else can there be so much 'innocent' humourus violence put in front of so many naive children, for the sake of selling corn pops, coco puffs or other nutrionaly healthy foods.

let alone the myriad of new toys advertized about every ten minutes that any self respecting toddler could not live without.


Look, I was just seeking to promote "creative intelligence" with confrontational nonviolent tactics in the lead, instead of the dead-end of violence. Sounding moralistic, but quoting John Trudell where he says "we can't out-fight them", and goes into why, if you read the comic. I was just trying to help Native youth learn from their elders, especially from someone who's been around (John).

My comic challenged the NYM comix put out by Zig Zag/Gord Hill. I saw a few of the first issues and saw that he was doing the "normal" thing in the comix industry, rather than promoting something different.

The NYM as a group is a different entity completely. One of their spokespeople said that they aren't affiliated with Gord Hill, so that was curious... Whatever. I just sought to bring out John's message, and at the same time challenge the widespread (on the internet) character assasination against him.

_________________
my path has included quite a few long-distance solo bicycle trips, a 26+ mile solo run, ongoing darings into and thru my fears, and other adventures in living (solo and with/amongst other human beings, etc).


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